anyway, i've always kind of liked the shadow disciplines tree, but am not really excited about the martial arts tree. that said, i realize at least 1 charge up and finishing skill are probably crucial for most assassins.
one of my main questions revolves around Treachery, which is easily attainable. My initial thought was to put 10 pts in fade and 20 in venom, but if i made treachery, i guess i could save 30 skill points right there. i DID skim some of the build guides, and it seems like cloak of shadows is apparent in pretty much all of them. mind blast is also popular. is cloak of shadows a must have skill? also, would it be better to put 10 in fade and 20 in venom, or just make treachery. this is one of my main issues, i was thinking of going with maybe shaftstop and vamp gaze, and 10 fade and 20 venom. but it is tempting to save 30 skill points, get treachery, and just settle for a lower venom. i have 1 100 poison dmg small charm and 2 50 poison dmg small charms, so i could partially make up for the lower venom level from treachery.
another question i have is about shadow master, i see build guides saying to max it, but i have to ask why. cant you just go with say 10 pts? yeah it will die quicker but you can just recast it like valkyrie (or so i assume).
i guess it would be best just to lay out my two thoughts and let the pros pick which would be best:
1st idea
20 venom
20 claw mastery
10 fade
10 shadow master
10 cloak of shadows
10 weapon block
this puts me around 83 skill points, which gives me 15-20 to enhance CoS or shadow master.
shaftstop + vamp gaze, or high def armor to take advantage of CoS
2nd idea
20 claw mastery
10 shadow master
10 cloak of shadows
10 weapon block
20 fist of fire/claws of thunder/blades of ice (for synergy)
20 phoenix strike
1 - finishing move (not sure which to go with)
treachery for fade and venom skills
im leaning a bit toward the 2nd cuz its more versatile i think. the 1st gives good physical and poison damage, and i dont remember running across too many dual physical and poison immunes. but the 2nd gives an elemental damage aspect as well.
thoughts?|||Glad you picked the assassin
Unless focused, charge-ups aren't really crucial at all. They're actually pretty rare, so you don't have to focus on the MA tree if you don't want to.
But, you'll have to have some focus since it contains their effective melee moves; if you go melee anyway.
CoS is usually a one point wonder. Higher levels means an extended timer on how soon it can be cast, so is avoided. Still, the boost in your def and the cut in the opponent's makes melee much easier when you need it. Blinding enemies is also a tremendously useful crowd control skill.
Mind blast is also a one pointer in PvM. It converts enemies, which the Master tends to do as well. This is why some say to use a Warrior. Still, the stun can be useful, so is good to have in back up for when you need it, but I wouldn't call it crucial to use all the time.
Speaking of the Master, she's used for a distracting minion. The decision comes from wanting control in your minion, or one who will cripple (and convert) some enemies + draw more in. Both are useful, so play style and preference are the main factors.
In terms of points, that also depends on play. When maxed, she can kill things pretty well. At 1 point, she's just a useful minion keeping focus off of you and your merc.
Claw mastery depends on if you plan on C/C or if you want to kick.
Claw Mastery is most useful with good claws. It lets you use the Dragon Claw finisher, which can add up to nice physical damage along with the elemental (venom or PS).
PS is definitely going to be more versatile. The damage is higher, and Phys & Poison Immunes do exist. They're the highly annoying mana burn ghosts >< Fire damage can easily clear these, and the Pi / Fi are less common.
It would be a good idea to at least keep some venom focus, and Treachery allows that. This way, you can go the second route while keeping a back up of venom (at a decent level).
Another thing you didn't touch on was Death Sentry. It also deals fire and physical and is an excellent utility skill for clearing mobs. It is effective at 1 or 20 points, though 20 points nearly fills the screen.|||The class that keeps bringing me back - solid choice =)
Ultimately you really need to decide what you want to do, but thanks to the new respecs of 1.13, you can feel free to play around with different styles, especially if you're fresh to the class.
If you go melee, you can try your luck with the charge-ups, which may be fun but will typically be lacking in the damage department. My most versatile sin was a trapper, and fully geared she breezed through just about anything hell had to offer. I built my kicker after realizing her limitation (or any caster for that matter) in UberTristram.
I strongly recommend reviewing both the trapper and kicker guides in the assassin forum - the information is extremely helpful. Also, I would suggest considering going "pure" trapper or kicker so as to fully experience the strengths and weaknesses of the skills before combining the two.
The thing about claws is that while something like bartucs may look impressive at a glance, in hell they really start to show weakness. Finer claws do exist, but can get very expensive. Most kickers won't use claws at all. However, the upside to claws is they can possibly block nearly anything, hence the preference to their usage in pvp builds.
If you're lookin for versatility and have some wealth, a trapsin well-geared will handle everything outside of uberland. If you plan on building up as you go (as I am starting fresh this season), a kicker will be more efficient. While chargeups look better and are arguably more fun, by the time you get your charges, a pure kicker would have probably already killed them.|||Quote:
While chargeups look better and are arguably more fun, by the time you get your charges, a pure kicker would have probably already killed them.
True, but the kicker (who uses Dtalon anyway) is still a single target killer. The charge up user finishes with AoE skills.
Damage is moderate, and boosted especially with synergy focus. If available, Infinity boosts the damage, and even can help AR problems that might arise.|||Quote:
Glad you picked the assassin
CoS is usually a one point wonder. Higher levels means an extended timer on how soon it can be cast, so is avoided.
i gotta say, i'm lost here. what's the problem with recasting it? is there something that can end its effects and then you cant recast it? i guess i dont see what the problem is there. insert newb joke here lol
i noticed kickers and WW assassins seem to be the trend. since i will never be able to afford an Ohm, i'm not going to bother looking at that.
what about this build instead:
20 claw mastery
10 weapon block
1 psychic hammer, burst of speed, cloak of shadows
1 shadow warrior, shadow master
20 blades of ice
20 phoenix strike
1 prereqs
1 dragon claw (finishing move)
5 death sentry
1 prereqs
this puts me at 91 skill pts, which leaves me about 10 or so realistically. i can either ramp up dragon claw to get some more physical damage, or 10 to shadow master and have a decent minion.
question: does blades of ice/phoenix strike work kind of like frozen orb? that spell is pretty dominant, and with the synergy, phoenix strike would do roughly double the cold damage a maxed orb would.
this scenario i would definitely use treachery, so i have venom and fade which i assume are pretty critical.
im kind of torn on merc choice here...might would be better damage, but hypothetically if i ramped up CoS a bit with a defiance merc, that combined with weapon block might make me tough to hit. this would be pretty important with the infamous fanatacism archer uniques running around hell.|||Quote:
True, but the kicker (who uses Dtalon anyway) is still a single target killer. The charge up user finishes with AoE skills.
Damage is moderate, and boosted especially with synergy focus. If available, Infinity boosts the damage, and even can help AR problems that might arise.
It is, but the faster you create a corpse, the faster you can create more with some death sentries =)|||Quote:
i gotta say, i'm lost here. what's the problem with recasting it? is there something that can end its effects and then you cant recast it? i guess i dont see what the problem is there. insert newb joke here lol
The timer is what prevents it from being recast. It's like the delay found on blizzard, but it doesn't turn red.
It mentions duration, but doesn't tell you that you can't cast it again until that duration is used up. Longer duration from higher levels means you can't cast it often, and you may or may not need to.
I'd say kickers are the trend for PvM. WW doesn't do very well in pvm, but is used well in pvp. Also, being weapon dependent, it isn't as available as a kicker build, who can go completely without a weapon if need be. Boots are more important though and become the equivalent of having a "good weapon".
The Ice part of PS sort of works like FO, but it doesn't shoot a projectile that shoots bolts. Instead, a circle of bolts shoot from you as the center and then spiral out ward. IIR, it's 2 circles, both in opposite directions so they cross occasionally. They take up roughly the screen's diameter when fully spiraled out.
Damage would be high with a lot of + skills, but won't be impressive without them. This is more a gear issue though.
One thing FO has for it is the cold mastery. With Infinity merc, you'll have a similar effect anyway.
Quote:
It is, but the faster you create a corpse, the faster you can create more with some death sentries =)
Which is one reason why I like to cast them before engaging. Then, they'll shoot by themselves rather than wait after I cast. Similar effects are mentioned here.|||so how does DS distinguish between doing a CE vs a lightning shot? it would be a drag to cast it, have it shoot 5 or 6 crappy lightning bolts, and vanish.|||Quote:
another question i have is about shadow master, i see build guides saying to max it, but i have to ask why. cant you just go with say 10 pts? yeah it will die quicker but you can just recast it like valkyrie (or so i assume).
The Shadow Master gains better equipment at higher levels. She also gain resistance. At high levels she really can help you kill enemies, even Diablo.
She is not just a meat shield like the valk or golems.
Have you ever seen the valkyrie kill anything?
Shadow Warrior is useless.|||I'm also considering making my first ever assassin, so I'd like to add a few questions. I'm experienced in D2, but have never played this class. I'm interested in a martial artist, and some recent research makes me think I may have seriously underestimated this class. However, I'm so inexperienced with assassins that I fear I may not even know what I don't know. I suppose a bulletized list of questions might be the best means of asking the question.
1. It appears that all the charge up skills stack and can be mixed and matched?
1a. So if, for example you combined a Tiger Strike with a Fists of Fire, then did a finisher, you'd get the improved physical and fire damage?
1b. I noticed that Claws of Thunder states the following at skill level 20. +148% AR, Charge 1: 1-780 lightning damage, Charge 2: 1-475 Nova damage, Charge 3: 1-740 CB damage. If I'm understanding this right, that means three charges with a finisher would give you all three effects? That seems like a lot, and that's before considering the Phoenix Strike synergy.
2. There are also three apparent charge up skills: Burst of Speed, Fade, and Venom. Could they also be stacked, or when cast do the effects over-write each other? It would seem ridiculously overpowered if you could stack them all, but I thought I'd ask. If they cannot be stacked, it definitely would seem like Treachery would be the way to go, as it would save you all those skill points.
3. When wielding two claws, do they alternate in attacks?
4. On finishing moves, DTalon and DTail both are kicks, so the damage is based on which boots you wear, but DClaw uses two claws, so the damage on BOTH claws are taken into account?
5. My initial thought on my Martial Artist was as follows:
20 Tiger Stike (for anything not physical immune, the damage seems too good to pass up)
20 in one of the three elemental charge up skills. (I see pros and cons to all three, although I like the freeze effect of Blades of Ice, even though it has the lowest damage, so that's the early front runner.)
20 in Phoenix Strike, as a synergy to the elemental attack, and a means of dealing other damage forms.
20 in either DClaw or DTail depending on whether or not I want to use two claws
1 point in all the Shadow Disciplines except Fade and Venom if I use Treachery.
That sounds like about 90ish skill points, although I have no clue on the order.
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