Kicks are great on their own, but even they use at least Death Sentry for the added corpse explosion to clear mobs and deal with immunes if need be.
The Monk build is one capable of general PvM and with the right gear focus, can solo Ubers. In regualar PvM and organ hunting, they use kicks, Death Sentry, and Blade Fury for melee, ranged and area damage.
With res gear, the kicks and CB can take down the Ubers.
Due to an excess of points kickers usually face, even mixing some Lightning Traps (DS and LS maxed, the others focused on last) can be effective. It can even be an introduction to getting used to traps if you want to try one again in the future.|||So basically Max out all kicking moves, fade (for resistance on ubers), and mabye death sentry? And what about the last like 6-10 points (give or take not really sure) for? mabye venom or claw mastery? TS even?
And what about stats?|||No, you don't want to max out all kick moves. Honestly, you don't even want to max DTalon unless you specifically do bosses and / or UT.
Fade, venom and Claw Mastery are all best at base point. + skills boost them and with SS, fade covers getting to max DR.
TS is best with DTail, but not DTalon. Only if you specifically gear toward those two should you even have more than 1 point in them. You can get 1 into Dflight + prereqs, but not maxed.
Death Sentry is a definite max. It boosts the radius and if you chose traps, it also boosts LS.|||After trying a kicker again, I'm falling in love all over again with it. If you want a sin and like melee - it be my suggestion. As Sass mentioned, it does leave an excess of points, as opposed to dedicated trappers.
I prefer going max on venom, dtalon, and DS, and distribute the rest depending on what I'll most likely be fighting. Unlike my trapper, who gains considerable speed when combined with an enigma and infinity on merc, a kicker can start a corpse explosion chain much faster without, not to mention that teleport kick can help to break up the monotony more than you can believe =)|||Quote:
After trying a kicker again, I'm falling in love all over again with it. If you want a sin and like melee - it be my suggestion. As Sass mentioned, it does leave an excess of points, as opposed to dedicated trappers.
I prefer going max on venom, dtalon, and DS, and distribute the rest depending on what I'll most likely be fighting. Unlike my trapper, who gains considerable speed when combined with an enigma and infinity on merc, a kicker can start a corpse explosion chain much faster without, not to mention that teleport kick can help to break up the monotony more than you can believe =)
can you post an example of progression? i have a level 39 assassin and i'm sucking like hell in nightmare actually =(
i play for fun with a friend (he's playing a sorc), i tried 2 builds but i didn't like 'em =/
any suggestion to build a good melee assassin? (pvm)|||That depends on what build you're going for.
I'll highlight the three common ones: Pure Kicker, hybrid Kick / Trap, and Pure Trapper.
Pure Kicker:
1 point in the prereqs like Psychic Hammer, Fire Blast, Claw Mastery, etc.
When you hit level 6, get BoS and use it constantly. Put points into DTalon until you get it to level 6 and gain the extra kick. One point into Dflight and its prereqs.
As you level, put one point in Blade Fury and the prereqs, and work toward DS. Cloak, MB, Block, and Warrior need only 1 point.
Fade will depend on gear later on, but at least 1 point for now. 1 point in Master (if you want one, otherwise, skip) and Venom.
So far, that's 9 in MA, 10 in Shadow, and 8 in Traps. Total of 27 skills.
First, get another 6 into DTalon for the extra damage. By now, you should have strong boots + mana leech.
Split the points between DS and Shadow (if Master).
At higher levels, you can gain the 4th kick from DTalon (no more than this, so be careful about + skill gear), can max DS and can spend points on Venom and the Shadow.
Kick / Trap:
Same progression as the Kicker when starting to fill the prereqs.
But, focus more on the traps and have kick as a back up until you have more melee gear.
Keep DTalon at 1 to deal with potential immunes and spread the traps at ~5-10 in SW, then another 5ish in CBS, and so on until you can max DS and then LS.
When entering Hell or have to deal with immunes more in NM, you can respec into having more in DTalon, and less in one of the synergies. You'll then be able to take care of immunes and can level up and replace that synergy.
You won't be needing additional points in a shadow, venom or BF.
Pure Trapper:
Similar to the Kick / Trap, focus on traps early. You save points by not needing to get any kicks at all.
Same as the K/T, you don't need additional point in venom, shadow or BF.
When you get into Hell, you can respec and trade one of the synergies for maxing FB. With + skill gear and synergized, it is powerful enough to kill several Lightning Immunes. DS will clear the rest when you need to.|||Whew, I haven't done a real progression in ages... I'm usually running around naked dodging monsters and don't place a single stat or skill till the 80s.
But if you're actually playing the game the way it should be =), there are a lot of things you have to keep in mind.
First off, identify strengths and weaknesses. If you can't think of any strengths, then be prepared for a full overhaul. I always found melee to be more gear dependent when leveling normally because they were in the thick of things and needed protection. I'm not gonna bother naming off gear by name, but instead try to give you the mindset you need.
First thing, how are you with hotkeys? The reason I enjoy my sins is partly because of their gameplay. As opposed to builds with one attack (cough hammerdins cough) I practically map out the left side of the keyboard for hotkeys alone as I'll switch between different things constantly. Mapping out and getting comfortable with your keys will make any character you play far more enjoyable. Now for the sin...
While the martial arts tree on paper looks like it can handle anything with the mix of elemental damage, there are only 2 skills I ever really utilize in it, dtalon and dtail, albeit dclaw has its own strengths and uses. I don't bother charging up simply because an efficient dtalon makes it pointless. With fast enough kicks, you'll find you can kill the majority of things very quickly. In order to get those kicks fast, you need to understand the basics of breakpoints. The math and mechanics can get very technical, but suffice it to say is your goal is to get as fast as possible utilizing tools to increase your attack speed.
Since you're in your 40s, I get the impression you have points all over the board, with no particular focus - as that would easily explain why you're having so much trouble in NM. At that level range, you won't be breezing through NM typically (unless well geared) but you shouldn't feel it too much a struggle either.
With the woefully needed addition of respecs, you get to avoid the pain of having to do it all over. For the sake of progression, I would focus keenly on essential skills before dumping more than a point in others. As a kicker, I typically prioritize the following:
dtalon
venom
death sentry
Unlike pure trappers, who need to hit the 80s or so before their synergies are complete, a kicker truly has a lot more freedom in design. What's more important, however, is understanding your needs equipment wise as you'll want the best protection you can find or afford.
For example, life and mana leech are essential. You don't need to get them out of some uniques or sets, but you do need it in your equipment. Chance of crushing blow works like a static field for sorcs in that it can take chunks of life out of your target aside from your normal damage. Open wounds is nice to have, but that's more for the later difficulties when monsters regenerate and have a lot more life (ie Ubers). Faster hit recovery is also very important, and it doesn't take much to make a big difference., but just like increased attack speed (IAS), you'll want to work towards hitting breakpoints. Damage reduction affects physical damage, and will help immensely, as the majority of close-quarter combat damage is physical. Resists need to be high if not capped as they too play a major role in damage reduction. Vitality should ultimately become your biggest stat as you'll want as much life as possible, while making sure to meet the strength and dex requirements of your gear.
While its possible to play a hybrid and mix between melee and traps, I would strongly recommend against it. Not only are hybrids more gear dependent as they need to try to improve in two different fighting styles, but at your level you wouldn't even get real versatility and simply be weak on both fronts.
At 40, depending on what skill quests you've done, you won't even have enough to max out two skills, so don't plan on it. I would put a majority of points into dtalon, and at least one point in most of the prerequisites. You'll want to be switching between burst of speed (BoS) and Fade as needed, though I prefer BoS on any sin as its easier to get damage reduction and resistance from gear than IAS-the faster running helps too.
I swear by my shadow masters in both pvm/pvp, albeit she's actually plays a bigger role in pvp as you already have a merc to help you tank - speaking of mercs, I recommend Act 2 Defiance (defensive norm/hell) or Holy Freeze (defensive NM) as opposed to any other merc. Not only are they easier to gear up, but the auras alone typically justify them against any other merc. But again, you're lacking in points, so just put in one so you can use her, as she can be a great distraction, and when strong enough she can tank for you very well.
Venom is a preference as my original kicker was specifically for ubers and needed all the damage she can get. Short of that, it's really a matter of preference.
Mindblast is probably my most used skill in pvm/pvp. In pvp, it's essential in stunlocking opponents. In PvM it can allow you to take on large groups you normally couldn't as you can ultimately turn some of the monsters out to kill you into tanks to absorb damage you would otherwise be taking. Still, I rarely put more than a point here.
Boy, I could keep going, but I need to stop. Really, take the time to look at the uber-tristram warrior monk guide, as not only the guide itself is extremely helpful, but so are a lot of the posts that follow it in that thread.|||thanks guys
edit: but, does venom apply to the dragon talon?|||Yes, all elemental damage applies. From the "kicking basics" document in the stickies:
The following effects are carried by the kicking skills:
Life Leech
Mana Leech
Elemental Damage
Magical Damage
Chance to cast X on striking
Crushing Blow
Open Wounds
Prevent Monster Heal
Ignore Target Defense
Hit Blinds Target
Hit Causes Monster to Flee
Hit Freezes target
Hit Slows Target
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